Sourcing and Nurturing Reseller Partnerships in the Asia Pacific

Understanding how reseller agreements may differ in this part of the world is crucial if your company is needing to draft out agreements for your distributors. We have Greenhouse’s COO, Viktor Kyosev, interviewing Gayathri Peria from Oracle. Gayathri is the Business Development and Sales Leader from Oracle. She is also part of the Singapore Institute of Directors (SID) which helps companies navigate around the Asia Pacific Region. In this interview, Gayathri covered her best practices when it comes to crafting reseller agreements in the APAC region and some considerations when managing these relationships.

Kindly note that this interview was prepared or accomplished by Gayathri Peria in her personal capacity. The opinions expressed in this article and transcript are Gayathri’s own and do not reflect any entity with which she has been, is now, or will be affiliated.  

Oracle is a cloud technology company that provides organizations around the world with computing infrastructure and software to help them innovate, unlock efficiencies and become more effective. They have also created the world’s first, and only, autonomous database to help organize and secure our customers’ data. Find out more about Oracle on their website: https://www.oracle.com/index.html


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Gayathri’s Best Practices for Reseller Agreements

To start off, Gayathri listed four pertinent factors to consider when crafting reseller agreements in a new territory. She states to review the following of each new territory:

  1. Legislation
  2. Taxation
  3. Political stability
  4. Availability of resources, especially that of the reseller’s capacity across the territories
“Unfortunately, there's no one storyline for the Asia Pacific…”

Gayathri Peria

Thereafter, Gayathri recommends that reseller agreements should be made adaptable. Meaning that these reseller agreements can be tweaked and revised to make changes at any point in time. She adds on to say that in countries with higher political stability and more proven civilized legislation, you could have a more rigid and straightforward agreement. Otherwise, in more emerging markets, it’s best to have a more adaptable and flexible reseller agreement template to work around with.

Importance of Different Partners and Tiers

When asked what is her view on how to differentiate between different types of partners and what she thinks is a good practice, Gayathri presents her idea on focusing on tiering; dividing partners into different levels. She reasons that these tiers put your partners on a spectrum and allow your company to have a clear view on how to navigate and allocate resources accordingly.

Gayathri suggests dividing reseller partners into such tiering, for example:

  • Strategy
  • OEM
  • Implementation
  • Reseller and fulfillment

Unfortunately, coming from a global and corporate brand herself, there might not be the liberty to decide on the tiering as there are already predetermined statuses. Yet, there could be other ways to make full use of them.

“You need to put your spectrum of partners into these tiers because then you understand how to apply your resource and time assets.”

Gayathri Peria

Consideration for Commissions for Big Brands and Upcoming Companies

Following the logic of creating tiers and placing reseller companies on a spectrum, Viktor probed about what considerations for the commission are reasonable in the Asia Pacific region, given if a company is a big and known brand versus an upcoming brand.

To which, Gayathri replies that upcoming companies and startups have more bandwidth to be creative about their commissions. She states that in today’s context, reseller partners have the desire to be engaged with your company and love the idea of working alongside to go-to-market with you. As such, she suggested building a solid loyalty program with your various reseller partners to create a strong community around selling your product or service.

Gayathri supports this idea by stating that this concept helps to navigate a quantum of functions that allows you to pay for the type of participation. Thereafter, dividing your community into, for example, “rising stars”. Not only does this help to internally motivate the reseller partners to learn from each other but also, through this your company will be able to more frequently decide on the type of loyalty rebates that you would like to engage based on per country. Gayathri lastly states that these reseller partners also build data points for your management team and it helps them to gain better funding access; creating a win-win situation for all parties involved.

“Global companies are a lot more traditional due to legislation and compliance adherence. But I guess, for upcoming companies, you have the liberty to create an engine of a loyalty club”

Gayathri Peria

Creating Excitement for Reseller Companies

Following the conversation, Viktor presents a common experience that most companies might face: Where reseller partners do not deliver and are not motivated to sell for your company. Furthermore, some companies resorted to doing everything first and then bringing the first deal to a reseller partner so that their partners feel like it’s an easy feat.

To that, Gayathri disagrees with this approach because there needs to be a set, clear agreement within the partnership. Gayathri states that to create that excitement and motivate these reseller partners, your company needs to recognize them and have a strategic focus segment of partners.

To further elaborate, this means that your company needs to have sales discipline; setting up your cadence and setting up the dual install base engagement model. She adds that aside from the two above, your company needs to ensure that your resources and documentation are available and accessible in real-time.

To build this healthy ecosystem, with the above measures in place, having a meeting fortnightly to run through and align on documentation is going to be helpful for your reseller partners in positioning well with your company’s interests and goals.

“You must have the monthly ecosystem round-up meetings, you must have your partner begin annually recognizing these partners for the quantum of difference that they make in your system."

Gayathri Peria

Last, in this section, Gayathri points that to evaluate the effectiveness of a reseller community, you can observe if the average basket value is increasing in its positive points annually. If they are not, you should consider pruning some partners just like she had done in the past by removing more than 60% of her reseller community in a region.

Finding the Best Reseller Partners

So, we know there are highly motivated reseller partners in a strongly knitted community in a particular region, and how to manage them.

But, where and how do we actually find them?

Gayathri acknowledges this is a crucial first step: Understand who are the leading distributors. She explains these leading distributors, most of the time, are able to share with you the top 30 partners that they work with within the territory. To add on, if you are a new and unknown brand in the region, these connections and interactions will benefit you in the long run because these leading distributors are familiar with the language, translation, and culture. She cautions that your company should not have too many distributors offering your solution and recommends just 3 or 4 to begin with.

“You spend some time with your top three [leading distributors] to understand from each of them, who are the top 30 or 40 partners who make 80 to 90% of their revenue on an annual basis. Those are the partners that you should be spending your time with. “

Gayathri Peria

Managing Relationships with Reseller Companies

Gayathri passionately discusses the importance of managing relationships and the how-tos to create that strong and lasting partnership.

Gayathri shares that if you are new to the territory and have no relationships in the region, 70 to 80% of your time should be spent on nurturing the relationships with your reseller partners. This comes with also studying and learning the cultural context and cultural adaptability so that you know how to do business in these countries.

“ It goes a really long way and most people have to realize that these partnerships are going to go on all your life and you need to set it right.”

Gayathri Peria

Also read: Business Culture in Southeast Asia: How to Win the Fast-Growth Market


Setting Targets for Reseller Companies

Lastly, Gayathri rounds up the interview with her 2-pronged model on setting targets for reseller companies.

  1. Make the targets tangible for her reseller partners and how to correct them
  2. Set the territorial forum and back it with your loyalty program

In this way, you will be able to encourage faster conversion rates through incentivizing by the flex points.


Our team will continue to interview thought leaders in the Asia Pacific to uncover the best practices behind designing reseller agreements, activating a network of partners across the region, and in general, building your go-to-market strategy. Stay tuned.


Need help with finding resellers in your target market?

Greenhouse can connect you to pre-qualified service providers to help you connect with resellers across your target markets. Additionally, we help you procure other business development services to help you grow revenues in the Asia Pacific region.


Transcript

Viktor: Literally before this call, I had a client that texted me, "Hey, I'm doing, you know, my referral agreements for some of our resellers in Indonesia, I'm really lost, how to do it." So now a lot of companies reach out to us with these kinds of inquiries. What's the difference between referral partners, resellers, and do you need to differentiate? How do you need to structure that, right? So there's a lot of complexity, especially across all these markets. So we're gonna do our best to touch on that topic. I have prepared some questions, share them your way, I don't know if you've had the chance to take a look. But they're pretty basic. And you know, at any point in time, if you feel that you're not comfortable answering any of these questions, you can just let me know and say, let's skip this one. Or if you feel that we are going in the wrong direction, and there is more value elsewhere. Again, just tell me, let's take a different point here, and then talk about it. So super flexible in that sense. And you know, the first thing I want to ask you is just to introduce yourself, why don't you tell us about your experience? What are you doing now? Where do you start, especially in the context of business development across the Asia Pacific?

Gayathri: Thanks for that, Viktor. So I'm Gayathri Peria. I'm currently the director for channels and alliances in Oracle, Asia Pacific. However, over the span of two supporting years, I've had experiences cutting across the indirect and direct sales experience, or a specific region. And I've also covered the different segments, and the areas of hardware, software, technological services, and also financial services. Interestingly, it's part of my career. So that has actually given me a broad base and spectrum view, in a technological chain, on existing partnerships, as well as end-users to extract the best benefits in both ways to ensure that their long-term benefits are being experienced. So I guess that was a goal that I've set for myself, and I'm still on the go or the journey as I am right now. In my current role, you know, I basically lead a team in the region, I deployed some really amazing individuals who are making those territorial changes in being impacted as you mentioned.

Viktor: Great, Cool, thank you so much for that. And I will start with a very broad question. We can then you know, unpack it and go in different directions. As it comes to reseller agreements, because, as you mentioned, you have some really good team that represents you in different markets. But I'm sure you also rely on a lot of external parties, a lot of resellers that help you to push your solutions across different markets. So what are the best practices as it comes to building reseller agreements in your experience?

Gayathri: Well, I think building reseller agreements, unfortunately, there's no one storyline for the Asia Pacific. And I think that's fortunate and unfortunate that this is a huge learning curve. So every territory, when you build a reseller agreement, there's a couple of considerations that are definitely here to place, apart from, I guess, benefits and outcomes that most companies should know. I think, most importantly, we need to review legislation, taxation, and political stability. And the availability of the resource, your reseller's capacity across the territory is really crucial. So I guess your reseller agreement that your plan has to be adaptable; adaptable in the sense that you are able to make changes to those reseller agreements at any point in time. And I think that's really crucial, except for large countries, predominantly, I would say countries with higher political stability and more proven civilized legislation. For example, Japan, Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, I guess, you have a much more straightforward view. However, for the rest of the countries, it is integrated and adaptable.

Viktor: Got it? Okay. And do you typically divide your potential partners, I understand in different markets is different. But you know, we can talk about specifics if necessary, but do you typically divide the partners into different tiers you know, some companies what I have seen is that they do premium partners, core partners. Other companies call it referral partners versus reseller partners versus OEM partners. So, you know, companies figure out ways to differentiate between different types of partners. So what have you done on the topic? And what do you think it's a good practice?

Gayathri: Coming from a corporate, you don't have the liberty to decide on the Partner Network programs which is a global program. And it's usually divided into tiers and lawfully agreed in terms of deployment across the globe. But in my personal opinion, I always felt that there is an umbrella that you've got to follow and that those companies have the leverage of working for very large companies based on predetermined status that they can make full use of. But today, in my personal opinion, I do not have those stages. I like the idea of focusing on tiers and dividing them into a couple of tiers. And I think in the Asia Pacific, in this region itself, you must have the top thirty-five strategy-focused partners, and focused partners predominantly must be your partners who want to join go-to-market in selling with you. And that has to be a proven model, a great model between both parties. And I also think that the separate tiers that you need to have are your reseller and fulfillment tier, your OEM tier, your implementation tier. And the reason why I think that these tiers have to be separated and you need to put your spectrum of partners into these tiers is because then you understand how to apply your resource and time assets. So you wouldn't be spending, you know, 70% of your time with an implementation partner, for example. So you can actually navigate as a sales leader, "how do I create placement of my resources, and the ability and map them accordingly?" So I guess, you know, in my simplistic opinion, if I was an independent organization without being a global company, I will actually divide it as strategy, OEM, implementation, resellers and fulfillment. So that, you know, it gives everyone in the organization a clear view on how they would like to navigate and place their resources tying from each spectrum.

Viktor: Nice, and following that logic of these few tiers that you just mentioned. What do you think are again, you know, different geographies, different business models? I get it. But you know, what do you think is a reasonable commission rate, because you know, of course, it's very different. When your brand is really big, you have a lot more leverage. At the same time, when your brand is just upcoming, then no one knows you, so maybe you need to give more. So what are your considerations for what commission is reasonable in this part of the world, given if you're a big brand, or if you're an upcoming band?

Gayathri: So well, I won't comment on global companies because global companies have dictated markets. That's the reason for that is, we have legislation that we need to live up to in terms of compliance. So it's very different for upcoming companies, I think upcoming companies will have more bandwidth to be creative, your commissions. And I think gone are the days where partners are more interested where you put in dollars and say, "Oh, this is X amount of dollars compared to y amount of sales." It was 10 years ago, my vision. I guess, now, most partners like to be very engaged with you, they like the idea of the brand calling together with you going to the market. A couple of things that I think any upcoming company should definitely do. Number one would be building a really solid loyalty program. And I think people like to be part of a club, people like to be part of a community, people like to be part of something, they like to be part of you.  So instead of you going out to sell for them, they will actually sell for you because they know that whatever they're doing this back to this loyalty club like you and I, you know, we have bought up a credit card loyalty club, in the same concept. And I think that this concept is brilliant. And this actually helps you to even navigate a quantum of functions that you want to pay for the type of participation. So you can divide your club into your rising stars. So you know even within the club, people will actually look for each other one is better than the other, will learn from the other. And I think when you create a community, people most times feel very engaged. And when they're engaged in return, you are able to more and more decide on the type of loyalty rebates that you would like to engage, country by country. So just to give you an example, right, in a country like Indonesia, they like the idea of going to a lucky draw being in something, rating the new Google Home, it kind of makes them feel good to be part of the community, they will get done something and you'll be rewarded for those people like that feeling. And I think that's something that in technology space that we gotta create better and better moving forward to dissipate, I guess, global companies exception of global companies because we are a lot more traditional due to legislation and compliance adherence. But I guess, for upcoming companies, you have the liberty to create an engine of a loyalty club, and I think you can do that, that's going to make a huge difference in the way you deploy companies. So you don't actually like cutting across an umbrella across the region. But I think I want 30% or 35%, there's no rational reason, there are no data points. But if you have a loyalty club, you build data points to it, even for your management. What that's my resellers do in terms of revenue engagement, as my rising stars develop, in terms of leads management? And these are actual data points that you are able to elaborate and this also helps any organization to also gain better funding access. Because the more proven your data point is, the higher you could gain your funding.

Viktor: Yeah, that's very interesting. Have you seen any startups using that line of thinking? Okay, have you seen examples of companies trying to create a bit of a premium feel to be part of that community and be successful? Or it's just an idea that you have?

Gayathri: It's an idea, I have in my thoughts. Honestly, I mean, I read up on a lot of rising companies like cloud companies these days. And I'm trying to understand from those companies, how they deploy their partner programs, and everyone is still following the global companies umbrella in terms of the traditional way of setting up apart in terms of segmentation, grouping, and then looking for identifying partners by revenue quantum and their performance in each of their territories. I mean, those are the right things to do, I'm not saying those are not the right thing to do, it's been proven. It's right, but doing the right things that really create innovation. That's two different things in my vision. So in my vision, if I'm given an opportunity to be innovative, this is what I will do.

Viktor: Yeah, that sounds very interesting. And in my experience, when you manage a lot of partners, I mean, I never tried to do it through a community. But you know, given that you manage a lot of partners, what happens is that often partners don't necessarily deliver. We put a lot of effort to find these guys. But you know they eventually just fade away, and they don't deliver, do you have any tips on, you know, how you can create excitement, or maybe like what I have seen some companies do is that they bring the first deal to a reseller partner, they do everything, and they just pass it to the reseller, so that the reseller has the feeling, it's easy. Because, once they feel it's easy they're gonna start working a lot harder, because, at first glance, everything looks hard, right? So have you seen any of these practices yourself?

Gayathri: Many times in my career, I have to tell you something that I do not agree with. And I feel that that's the reason why we need to have a strategic focus segment of partners, and even your loyalty club, we need to recognize them. Because those are the partners that you need to set clear agreements with within your partnership, what are you going to create? A couple of things that I believe in that is basically sales discipline, you need to set up your cadence, you need to set up the dual install base engagement model. So I give you something, I take something. Right, so both of us have a win-win situation. And three, I think with your focus partners, you need to ensure that your resources and documentation are available in real-time and accessibility, to contact phones in real-time, during the territorial participation. And I think these are things that you need to create free alignment, the document is aligning, not only documents, I guess that you know, a lot of times that we create such engine and then we think that it's just going to run by itself, it doesn't. So you need to have a sales discipline and run with those partners on a fortnightly basis, you must have the monthly ecosystem round-up meetings, you must have your partner begin annually recognizing these partners for the quantum of difference that they make in your system. All of this actually makes a difference. I guess before you say that a reseller or is having it easy, that's because you're giving too much priority to a reseller. Reseller, it's just a fulfillment, you can't normally get anything out of it. But if you're pushing a reseller to become a subcontractor or a strategic partner, then they are forced to align the strategic partner has to align your interest, you are creating an indirect cost of alignment. And I think that's really important because then your focus partners have more control and liberty. In my career, I've seen many times that there are like 600 to 700 plus resellers in the region and I have no idea, what's the average basket value. And this is really crucial. I think, any startup any organization, we need to weigh the point that the number of resellers you have in this region, if you're already pre-existing, and what's your average basket value. Because if your average basket value is not increasing positive points year over year, that means that the reseller community is not effective. So, that's where I think they have it easy; you're giving them something you can't settle, but you're not putting them towards a framework. If you follow the engine of creating a framework, most times that the reseller community starts to be effective. I've done it myself, so I have sliced of reseller community by more than 60% and brought it down in the region. And I actually start to see who are the effective resellers. So instead of having IT service partners you really have managed service partners. You can actually go to them to get end-user help if your end-user requires pre-sales assistant, on-site vendors, I'm just giving you an example. We know that these resellers will also stay with you long term because the stickiness is long, they feel that engine of being part of your community.

Viktor: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. Now that we touched on the topic of how do we manage it? And in general, what are the best practices? I'm curious, where do you find them? You know, that's something that everyone has, because like, where do we find these partners? Where do we look for them? Because it's not like they can websites where you can just go out there and, you know, Google for it. So it's really hard. So what are the best practices in identifying these people?

Gayathri: Really good question. I always think that the first thing that any rising company or startup should do is in every territory that you're looking to open up in, you need to understand who are the leading distributors. And the leading distributors, in most times, we'll be able to tell you, who are the top 30 partners that they work within the territory. And usually, these relationships are very young. They go to countries like North Asia, in Japan, Korea, you will realize that this is pretty strong, this is the certain reason why the setup is there. And they are able to interact for the long term because of language, translation, there's a lot of other conditions that you need to actually understand. But it's difficult for you to qualify that this department is appropriate for your line of business. But if you identify who are the three or four distributors, in those countries, you can do some study, I think any startup has to do some study with those distributors, and then decide why we would pick those distributors to work with. Because I would recommend for any startup if you have too many distributors offering your solution, not more than three because it's not viable for you to control. So you have your top three, you spend some time with your top three to understand from each of them, who are the top 30 or 40 partners who make 80 to 90% of their revenue on an annual basis. Those are the partners that you should be spending your time with. Then further segmenting on the suitability to the solution side that you're offering.

Viktor: Got it? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Now you find these guys, and you start working with them, what percentage of your time do you spend on managing this relationship versus managing everything else? Because I'm sure you have a lot more than just these partners, right? You have your own team, you have other targets and KPIs. So what percent of your I mean proportionately just on average is right? What do you think it's a reasonable amount to spend on nurturing these relationships?

Gayathri: To be honest, if you're just rightfully starting up and you have no visibility into the region, and we have no relationship for the region, is 70 to 80%. Because in this region, I guess the relationship supersedes the quantum of benefit any technology offers. You have multiple countries have multiple languages with multiple cultural adaptability and the cultural adaptability in JAPAC, as is also pretty unique. You have the super high context cultures when you have the low context cultures. So, you need to spend time with those partners to understand what to say in a meeting, how to react in a meeting. It was quite interesting to me, I was reading this cultural map book by Eric Meyer, one of the leading professors. So if you read that book, you understand it's quite interesting when you go to the Gulf countries, right, and you try to do business with your partners and if you are an American, or you're a Singaporean, you will be shocked because you go like, "What are we doing for three days having tea, and not having a single discussion about my product or my service." So I think it's important if you don't spend the 70 to 80%, you won't be able to map the cultural adaptation in this country, how to protect your business. Because if you don't create a matrix table for the cultural adaptation, I think that you will suffer long-term as a startup to try to navigate because being transactional and being strategic is two different purposes. So if your goal is to have your volume and strategy business being grown at the same time, and if you realize a lot of startups they always start with volume because that's really crucial. To get the Series A, B, C fundings before we move on to pretty massive spread to any sense because that you need to build a footprint. But I think that in the new world, you need to build your volume and your strategy business at the same time. And those partners have what it takes to help you do that. If you spend that time, you also understand where and how to play.

Viktor: I totally relate, especially on the culture example. A few days ago, I had a meeting with someone in the Netherlands, and I'm so used to talking to people in Asia. And in Asia, you always have the element of building relationships. And also it's not just business, right? And the guy in the Netherlands he cut me after 10 minutes, and he's like, "Okay, we're done. Bye." I was like, "Oh, wow."  I come from Europe and I got shocked because I'm not used to it anymore. When I came here, I was like that when I moved here for the first time, I was very transactional, very business-focused, right? Like, let's get down to business. And now I'm turning in the other extreme. So now when I talk to people in Europe, I'm like, "Oh, these guys, they just don't care about you. They just want to do business." So I completely relate.

Gayathri: It's the same right? Even in the US or Europe, they're very particular with the timing, "we have a 30-minute call. I've reached 29 minutes, we are closing right now." But in APJ, you realize that at the 29th minute, your partner will say "I have one last question." It is a very, very different culture. And I think that if you, if you put your mind to it, you but you got to come out and look at yourself as, as a cultural, that you're trying to understand a lot more from this viewpoint. And I always think that the amount of time that I've spent with most of these partners, I've always been, even in my personal career, I have done the big two deals, I have thrown partners within 24 months from zero to $8 million. And I always think that the amount of time that I spent with them has been very helpful even till today that in my career, 10 or 14 years, I'm still able to pick up the phone and call them and ask a question. It goes a really long way and most people have to realize that these partnerships are going to go on all your life and you need to set it right. I was also shocked when I was in Europe, the call ends on the 28th minute. I thought, "That was fast."

Viktor: Yeah, I used to live in Denmark and was educated in Denmark and Denmark is the most no-bullshit culture ever. Like you enter a meeting immediately you're down to business and it finishes so fast. Most of the time, you don't have any sense of whether it went good or not. Because people are just friendly towards each other. But you know, but you can't read anything outside whatever you discussed, right? So, you leave the meeting and like I have no idea what's going to happen. And then they call you and say, "We're good to go, we like you guys." And I'm like, "Wow, I totally didn't see it." So, you need to build some muscle there to understand how to read the room. But you know, I scheduled half an hour for this call and in the interest of time, and I'm sure that you have a lot of other things. I just want to make sure that because we're already at about 30 minutes. Is there anything else you'd like to cover anything that you feel that it could be valuable, but we didn't talk about? Anything that comes to mind on the topic?

Gayathri: There are a few things I think of, especially working for a global company, I always say that, "If one day I ever worked for a startup, what would I do?" And I think you did have one question in your portfolio on targets, right? You wanted to know, how would you set the target? And that's something that I've been drawing up personally, in my own personal time, what would I do when I'm not part of a global company? What would I exactly do? And I think there are two models that I feel it's a good anchoring point, and this might be helpful for most of your startup companies. One is to think that "How do I make the targets tangible for my partners? And how do I correct them?" Traditionally, we do the past year's performance, being set a year over year performance study. So that is the petition. But I think in the new world, you really have to set the territorial forum and then you've got to divide that by the number of subscriptions or licenses that you put yourself. And then I think that you need to further divide that and take it to your loyalty program. And practice on a monthly basis. So the more they acquire on a monthly basis, the higher the flex points. I could have learned that from something that's not even nontechnology at all, like a program run by American Express, I studied their program. And I really like that, it's a consumer program. But you know, you really adapt or we adapt to being thought process. You can actually deploy that in technology.

Viktor: So like an acceleration essentially? You encourage faster conversion rates through incentivizing in the right way.

Gayathri: So you want to incentivize them, always by dollars, it's by flex points. So every quarter, they reach that flex point, that X amount of dollars that they're going to get in terms of funding or resellers, or awards, for them to reward their team for their performance. Things like that, which actually resonate much better. And towards the branding, as well. So your branding actually goes further and further into the market without detaching.

Viktor: That's super helpful. Thank you so much. I think you know someday you should try to work at a startup. I think you have a lot of ideas that in a startup, the good thing is that it's so easy to try ideas; unlike in a corporate where you need to get a lot of permissions. In a startup, just go ahead. If it works great. If it doesn't work, well, who cares? You know, most things don't work, just figure out something else. So I think you're gonna really enjoy the experience.

Gayathri: Thank you for that, Viktor. I'm really going to consider that and if you think that you were going to fit me into somewhere one day, give me a call.

Viktor: Sure, if I find some rocketship that's exploding and needs help, definitely let you know.

Gayathri: But on a side note, if you are craving something like a group or to know more startups and, to help them to navigate around JPAC I am also part of the Singapore Institute of Directors, SID, so we help a lot of companies to navigate around APAC But SID is more towards Singapore. But because I've worked a lot in the APAC region, so I'm able to help some companies navigate their assets, I do provide some business consulting around those areas. So in long term, you're creating those builds and I'm really happy to be part of that, it's good learning for me as well.

Viktor: Nice. You know, what we do sometimes is that when we bring founders into this part of the world, we do focus groups. And the focus group is not just with customers, but with people like you, that are experts in a particular field. And 2-3 people that we bring for a very intense discussion around a particular topic like going to Japan going to Korea or taking SAAS to APAC in general, and that's been very valuable So, whenever we have workshops like that and a lot more are coming because I just signed a few big clients that are going to give us the opportunity to run these workshops, I'll let you know because I think it can be very valuable. And we're also thinking to start our own community. But I don't want to start it unless we have a critical mass of good people. So I'm still not just exploring, and when we feel that we are ready, I'll let you know. Because eventually, we may have you know, right now we have about 100 founders in our network that have expanded to Asia. All of them are venture-backed companies. But I feel that we need to have at least maybe 200-300 before we can do it, because many of them not going to be active in the community. And I just want to make sure we have enough active people. But I will let you know the moment we are ready.

Gayathri: Thank you, Viktor, looking forward!

Viktor: Sure. Well, thank you so much. That was very helpful. And thank you for staying a bit longer than what we scheduled. I really appreciate it. And yeah, once you know we're back to normal. I mean, once restaurants are open and all that hopefully we can catch up as we discussed on Whatsapp.

Gayathri: Oh, yes, we need to meet it's been at least we've had this like, I've had a plan to meet a lot of people that never happened to one and a half years. So now I try not to make plans in my life and not think about it.

Viktor: Hopefully soon, it's gonna get better. And by the end of August, I think things gonna be better.

Gayathri: Looking forward and just finding new things to do on this Friday being at home, everybody. Happy Friday. Have a good day. Bye.

-End of Transcript-

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